Hello, I’m Amanada B. Johnson, and you’re
Living Room of Satoshi is a cryptocurrency bill pay
service based in Australia, which is set
to integrate Dash soon and remove some
other cryptocurrencies. To find out
details on the why’s, the when’s, and the
what’s, I reached out to Living Room of
Satoshi’s founder, Daniel. And here he is.
So to start with, how do you pronounce
your last name Daniel? I don’t know.
Ah it’s a tricky one — yeah it’s Alexiuc. Alexiuc.
It’s got an “s”sound at the end for some unknown reason.
Alright Daniel Alexiuc. And tell us what
it is you — how are you involved with
Living Room of Satoshi and what is
Living Room of Satoshi? Yeah I’m the
founder of Living Room of Satoshi and so I
guess I’m a programmer from way back and
that”s what I love to do. And when
Bitcoin came around I was just
fascinated with the technical side of it.
You know it was just something — something
amazing. Something I wanted to do. And
in Australia there was really no way to
spend the Bitcoin Ihad so I started
this company to enable bill payments,
which is something everybody does.
And Living Room of Satoshi has been doing
bill payments for Australians for nearly
three years now. Three years! In crypto
currency that’s long time. It is.
Yeah. So now, the way that this is
able to work so well for you — correct me
if I’m wrong — is that in Australia most
or almost even all businesses who send
bills to customers all use this sort of
numbering system called BPAY. Is that
right? Yeah. Australia has actually a
pretty advanced financial system. And
when it comes to bill payments the big
four banks in our country have all
joined together and made this service
called BPAY. It’s — it’s kind of a
monopoly because it’s a private company,
but they own it. So they pretty much
charge whatever they like. But the good
thing is that almost every biller in
Australia uses it. And the ones that don’t
generally accept bank transfers and
Living Room of Satoshi supports that as
Ok so if I wanted it to pay a bill with
Bitcoin or any of the other
cryptocurrencies that you support — and
we’ll get into that in a moment — but if I
wanted to pay an Australian bill using
walk me through the steps that I would
take as your customer.
Yeah one of the best things about the
service is that you don’t have to login.
You don’t have to create an account.
It’s basically anonymous. You can pay —
you can pay my phone bill if you want
to. You go onto the website and yet you take
the BPAY details from the bottom of
the bill —
it’s just two numbers — you type them in and
you’re popped up with a QR code to pay it in
Bitcoin. And that’s literally it . You pay it
and it’s done.
Do I remember correctly reading on your
site that you don’t have fees?T hat can’t
Yeah, we don’t charge any fees on
top of the bill or
anything like that. So the amount of
Bitcoin that comes up on the front page is
just the exact amount you’ll pay.
Interesting. And then, and then you make
the bank transfer on behalf of the
customer and that pays the bill?
That — that’s basically it.
Very interesting. Alright, so now
the reason that I am talking to you
today is that you have now joined the
ranks of the very small number of people
in the world who have put a proposal for
funding into Dash’s treasury. Now why
don’t you tell us what that is
about, because you’re gonna get paid here
really soon, like in a few hours.
That’s an amazing thing. It’s really
unique in the cryptocurrency space. I
mean I was contacted about Dash —
I mean I kept track of it over the
years — but a number of our customers
started asking for it. And when I found out
that there’s this budget system where,
basically it’s like — it’s like a it’s a
working DAO. It’s an autonomous
organization that can pay for whatever
the community wants it to pay for. And so
I put a proposal forward to integrate
Living Room of Satoshi’s website, with a
detailed plan and how it’s gonna do it,
and the community said yeah, they want to do
it. And if it’s generally something that
supports the Dash currency then you’ll
get good support. So okay. So you
mentioned there were some customer
requests on your end — is that the reason
that you decided to integrate Dash? Was
because some people that asked for it?
Were there additional reasons? What was
your main reason?
Yeah that’s a good question. What we’ve
experimented with a couple of other,
I guess altcoins in the past. We’ve had —
six months with it
Yes! Please tell me, in addition to
Bitcoin what are the other cryptos that
you accept right now? So we’ve got
Eterheum, we’ve got Litecoin and Dogecoin —
or however you say it. And that was basically
just to give it a try and see what was
happening. Ethereum got a lot of publicity, you
know, at the start of this year. So what we
thought we would try it and see what
happened. But it kind of became clear
that, that I mean these currencies work but
that they’re not designed for use as
digital cash really. They’re not designed to be a
payment system. I mean there are other
purposes. Litecoin, you know, it was
invented to try something different
within mining. And Ethereum’s, you know, all
about smart contracts. And they work if you
you want to send money around, but really
the business that I’m in is in bill
payments. I’m not and really an
altcoin exchange like a
ShapeShift or something.
So the thing that matters to me is that
my customers can easily pay their bills.
And currencies like that, you know,
they’re not designed to be used like
that. That’s what I’ve experienced
the last six months anyway. And so
that’s what really attracted me to Dash.
That it’s designed to be Digital Cash.
Ok. So in… when forming your opinion
about these other cryptos not being
an ideal form of digital cash was that —
like you had tried to use
them and you were like, oh this is kind of
Was it something that your customers had
Oh like, what specific events caused
you to form those opinions? Well firstly I
guess it’s the usage. The usage is very low,
and particularly with Litecoin and Dogecoin
But but they sort of have other
uses. People don’t seem to be
interested in using them as day-to-day
money. And so that reflected in the usage
on our site.
Ethereum had a bit more usage but
honestly I’ve really been turned off by
the that the difficulties we’ve had with
it. Like we have the fork incident and that
did affect us affected our business.
You know we we had customers that had
money, we have to chase it down. And even
again more recently, there was another
incident where that the nodes stopped
validating and again we have to chase
all that up.
We’re just kind of getting sick of
these currencies that aren’t designed
for use as digital cash.
I mean Bitcoin, it’s really stable.
It’s been running non-stop for three
years now and I feel that digital
currency — that Dash — like the developers
had that in mind as well. That it’s
going to be used this way and that’s why
I think it’ll be useful for bill
payments. So how and when did you first
find and/or hear of Dash? One of my
customers is quite heavily into Dash —
runs a number of masternodes — and I was
just having a chat with him. I a chat
with a lot of my customers actually
because they’re often very passionate
about cryptocurrencies and about
that sort of thing. And I guess, yeah just
learning about the features. Some of the
features it had like InstantSend.
That’s something that will I
think be useful for us. Especially with
Australia’s banking system because
they’re planning to, in the next year or
two, to make payments and almost instant.
So as I said, they’ve got quite an advanced
fiat banking system in Australia. But
that’s something that matches up nicely
with Dash because this InstantSend
feature means that when you combine
it with the fiat instant send,
customers can get their money .
Instantly. Which is a huge selling point
for people who, for billers, for people who
want money. And so now, did I also read
correctly on your site that you offer a
sort of crypto-to-fiat option also? Yeah
that’s right. It’s um… mostly
bigger companies that use BPAY, or
companies of a medium-to-large size.
There’s about 45,000 of them in
Australia. Australia’s a country of about 20
million people, so that might be a bit ofan idea.
But first for small, like sole traders —
your electrician or plumber or people
like that — often they only take bank
transfer and that’s what it was designed for.
To pay those kind of people. But you can
use it to pay to play any Australian
bank account and some of our customers
will use it to send money from overseas
into Australia, and to their to their
parents bank account. Things like that. So
yeah, it’s kind of a gateway into fiat
as well. That is interesting.
Ok. So I would like to know more
about what you think your integration
process is going to be like. You know,
I hear, you know, since
Dash’s codebase is a Bitcoin codebase
then that makes it easier for
integrations or something. But like what
does that mean in your experience? Like
have you begun the integration process
or do you at least know what it will
look like and kinda how it will have
to play out?
Look we’ve got a bit of an idea. We haven’t
started yet but I think we’ll be starting
What if everything goes through, which it
looks like it will. We plan to run a
masternode and use that as our
payment server basically. So and I don’t
because it’s based on Bitcoin. It’s
things that we”re very familiar
with, we’ll be able to work with.
We’re really keen to get a
masternode into our company because it,
that kind of involves us in the Dash
ecosystem as well. Enables us to vote on
proposals. And who knows, it
just opens up possibilities for the
future. Epecially with with some more
things that are coming. With Dash
Evolution down the line. You know that’s
interesting that you
mention, like hey, as a business I
would like to have a masternode because
I would like to vote on how things go.
Because I just causde me to think of you
know, like these, like mega
companies in the Bitcoin space. For
example like the Coinbase or the BitPay
or the ShapeShift or whatever.
They like, they don’t get a vote in what
happens to Bitcoin. Yeah.
That’s a good, that’s a really good
feature of Dash because you know that
this some in the Dash community who
really care about the privacy aspects of
it and and of course we think that’s a
good feature too but but others, like our
company, where we’re interested in in
real-world usage of it. And making it
easy for people to use. So
having all those you know inputs from
people who are actually invested in the
ecosystem I think is a really good thing
for Dash and it’s something that’s quite
Alright well I just have just a couple
more questions for you Daniel because it
sounds like you have a busy day ahead of
you, in that when your payment comes
through you’re going to start
integrating Dash. But my first
question is uh, I generally ask people,
like if I don’t immediately understand
like what their business model is or
like how they make money,
um I’m — do you do this like a no-fee
service just because it’s like worth it
to you to get the crypto like an
exchange for your own fiat and that’s
just like, that’s like an investment that
you hope pays off in and of itself? Or do
you have like plans in the future to
implement a sort of the model maybe like
later down the line?
Sure. Yeah. We started out that way, um just
to make just for simplicity really.
People don’t have to calculate the fee
on top of the amount. Just a single
dollar amount. A single crypto amount. We do
make a profit. We are a
profitable company at the moment. So what we do
is take the Bitcoin and sell it overseas.
tThe tax laws in Australia make it
unfortunately at the moment —
for business to really use crypto but
but that’s how we we operate at the
moment. We’re able to to sell it for more
than you could in Australia overseas. And
in the future I mean, our real goal is
to get billers accepting crypto
That’s what we’re working towards. And so
whatever we can do to make it easy for
both sides of the payment to do
that we’re going to do. Have you had any
discussions with any of your billers
thus far about accepting it directly or
has that yet to happen?
We’ve talked to a few small billers.
We’ve worked up a little bit of an API
that people can use to integrate. And
we’ve had some trials of that, so I mean
it’s encouraging. But i think it will
really be driven by my consumer use. Once
people see that there’s you know, there’s
a lot of people who actually want to do
this and you can save money on your BPAY
fees and whatever other fees — if
you accept credit cards, whatever — I think
that will be a big selling point.
But yeah, we want to grow the business
like that. To be able to say that. Alright,
and two more questions. Firstly, do you —
are, is there like a similar… BPAY
system — does that exist in similar
forms elsewhere? Like basically what I’m
asking is if someone is like, wow
Daniel you have such a cool business
model. Do you know, can your
business model be replicated very easily
in other places? Or is Australia kind of
like unique with the BPAY stuff? I think
it very much depends on the country.
Yeah, Australia is kind of in a unique
situation that the big four banks have got
this monopoly on this bill
system and it doesn’t look like it’s
going to change soon. I know there are
other countries that — that have
similar setups. Canada and few
others. But at the moment we’re just
focusing on Australia and probably New
Zealand next. But I know that things are
very different countries like the US
where it would be much more difficult to
to start a company like this one.
All right. And finally where did the
name Living Room of Satoshi come from?
Because it to me it is both interesting
and evocative of a sort of like warm
feeling. Like I said I almost see a
fireplace crackling and I envision
myself sitting on Satoshi’s knee and
hearing about how he invented Bitcoin.
And so is that why you named your
business Living Room of Satoshi or was
there another reason? That, that’s good to
hear actually because that is kind of
the thing we were going for.
We wanted something memorable. Something
to honor Satoshi. And we kind of thought
that well, maybe even Mr. Nakamoto would be
paying his bill through our service sitting
in his living room getting his Telstra
bill. You never know. But that was our
vision. That’s an interesting
thought. Well Daniel thank you for your
time and I am very much looking forward
to when you’re — when you’re fully
integrated with Dash and your people can
start paying their bills with Dash. So
congrats on on getting your your
treasury bill — that’s sounds wrong –treasury
bill like something the Federal Reserve
does… Your treasury proposal. Yeah we want to get away from those terms.
Congrats on your proposal passing and I
look forward to some updates from you in
the future. Thanks Amanda, nice to talk to
you. Yep! Bye-bye. You may be interested to know
that Pete and I have recently launched
DashDetailed.com. Here you will find
all our videos posted with a text
transcript, if you’d prefer to read as
you watch the show or even instead of
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contains links to all of our social
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contain other things as well.
Special thanks to Crypto Advocate who
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Send an email with the word “subscribe” in
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Ryan Taylor, considered Director of
Finance at Dash — former hedge fund
analyst and payments industry advisor —
has written this op-ed piece published
at Nasdaq.com and I’m going to read it
for you today.