This week in Bitcoin- 1-31-2020- Realized Cap ATH, Lightning Network Strike, Taxes, Andrew Yang

This week in Bitcoin- 1-31-2020- Realized Cap ATH, Lightning Network Strike, Taxes, Andrew Yang


Hello everyone this is adam meister the
bitcoinmeister the disrupt meister welcome to this week in bitcoin today is
the last day of January well January 31st 2020 strong hand golden age of the
2020s welcome to it bitcoin is the next bitcoin one bitcoin
equals one bitcoin value to your wealth and bitcoin you know all offended by
selling that bitcoin alright dudes well this month has gone by real fast i can’t
believe it’s gonna be february tomorrow i guess there’s a big football game this
weekend some people are gonna be watching or something
dustin of did you know podcast is here david nage has returned from ARCA and
and we got Alex Adelman again making well he’s been here a lot from from
lolly he’s here he’s offended by selling bitcoin he’s trying to get you more
bitcoin but alright dudes let it let’s start off with the news of the week
we’ll start a Rick David I I was impressed by the tweet that is linked to
below and by the way all these guys are linked to below I gotta say hello my
elite friends out there check out all the links below but a better metric than
boring all a market cap and a lot of people are excited about the Bitcoin
price but I’m excited about the realized cap of Bitcoin okay it has reached an
all-time high of over a hundred and three billion dollars and the previous
all-time high was back on November 18th of of 2019 so what does this all mean
David in your opinion so I think it’s interesting there’s been some work by
class node that you’re citing and rhythm trader
obviously put out that tweet also today too and so from rhythm trader and from
what I’ve been able to ascertain market cap or what we’re calling realized cap
is calculated by taking the value of all coins at the price they last
acted on chain and so it’s an interesting thing that’s happened within
the Bitcoin community within digital assets in grander scale is that we’re
all trying to figure out how to actually analyze what’s happening here we’re
trying to come up with new world metrics to be able to tell people this is what’s
happening this is how Bitcoin is growing and so I think it’s really interesting
that class note also talked about what they consider healthy Bitcoin growth
they compared the daily net growth as entities and the net growth of addresses
and they noticed that there’s some really good healthy consistent adoption
of Bitcoin over the last ten years and so we’ve been talking about this at ARCA
we talked about this to other institutional investors we talked to
them about the overall growth of the of Bitcoin and so we also look at the
number of Bitcoin or cryptographically powered wallets we’ve seen tremendous
growth there I believe we reached over 40 million at the first half of 2019
representing basically enormous growth from less than 8 million users users in
the second quarter of 2016 so all of the numbers that we’re seeing indicate that
further adoption of this is going up and why do we think that’s happening we
think that’s happening for a few reasons we think that bitcoin is starting to
resemble a global macro hedge what does that mean what we saw in the beginning
of January of 2020 is that we had the u.s. Iranian conflict we saw that the
initial first days of that Bitcoin did not necessarily move as quickly it took
a few hours after the first parts of the conflict occurred but then what we
started seeing when the missiles were sent over from Iran to the bases where
the US were that Bitcoin really moved very quickly within minutes and then
what we really found quite interesting is that when Trump D escalated it moved
down within seconds to minutes very quickly and we started to see that you
know perhaps the market itself is starting to acknowledge a Bitcoin is a
risk offer scar risk on trade and for many institutional investors this is
something that they could start taking a look at it
putting into their their toolset effectively for many institutional
investors so people can understand is that they try to manage risk using the
tools that they have had at their disposal for a number of years and one
of the primary ones for many years has been gold gold is basically what I
consider a butter knife that has a set time that you can use it you can use it
from nine to four 1909 to 4:30 whatever it may be
whereas Bitcoin is basically a samurai samurai sword that is cryptographically
powered that you can use 24/7 365 and it helps you cut and provides you the
ability to really cut through a lot of the volatility in the global chaos that
we are throwing seeing I say chaos in a in a manner not to frighten people but
we are starting to see some things that are happening here that are frightening
people and are frightening investors Iran and the u.s. conflict was one of
them but now we’re starting to see the coronavirus take effect we’re starting
to see things happening where Delta and American Airlines are ceasing flights
due to China we’re starting to see a lot of concerns that China’s GDP is going to
be negatively affected for the first quarter at least maybe to the second
quarter and they are a major component of global global macro economic behavior
and so we are starting to see that potentially this adoption and this
furthering curve up that we’re starting to see that we start with glass node and
with some of the things we’re talking about in terms of realized cap that
investors that they’re starting to acknowledge that bitcoin does present
properties that allow them to really manage risk in a new way that they
didn’t have before whoa you just laid it all out there pal that
like button everyone all right Derek he he just put a lot out there you probably
have some comments there he mentioned well one thing that I like to say the
gold is old there that this is uh this is what people are getting into instead
of gold and also you mentioned the term entities and the the glass sky said
they’re 23 million and Oh 23 point 1 million entities holding Bitcoin right
now that that was something I want to bring
up and you you touched on it so I Derek give anything that any comments on what
was just said or about realized cap or the entities owning Bitcoin sorry I know
so I’ve been looking at that in and I had only briefly looked over that that
medium article but I mean this had been brought up in separate stories as well
one of the you know the concerns that is being brought up with this is amount of
money or she said the amount of Bitcoin being held on exchanges especially with
coinbase you know approaching a billion Bitcoin and I think in the article I
don’t want to keep on scrolling and make you guys wait but it was like a little
bit over like two point something million Bitcoin was being held but by
multiple exchanges which if you consider the amount that’s probably been lost
over the years satoshis coins that have never moved and likely never will all
this stuff I mean we’re far below the eighteen that’s in current circulation
and this this does concern me a bit we’re that much money has held up in
custodial wallets where it’s not being accessible by or not being held by
private keys of the actual users and I think that this is a step you know
custodial and all that this is a lot of people are just not used to the way all
this works is very very new this idea of like holding your keys and if I lose it
I’m done for right it’s it’s a kind of a jump in in the mental processes that
people need to kind of go through to understand how wealth is going to be
held in the future versus being used to be so reversing your transaction if if
somebody stole your credit card number but I think that is something that that
is a matter of Education by individuals like everybody here of trying to get
people to be able to a larger number there’s always gonna be a certain amount
that hold their Bitcoin in custodial solutions because they’re more comfort
with that and and that that’s fine I’d rather than do that than holding their
US dollars or Russian rubles in custodial banks but I think that we we
still have a long way to go for this and the more money or the more Bitcoin that
is held by private keys of users versus and custodial wallets I think that
that’s another good metric that we should be looking at as well you’ve
really brought you brought a good point that I forgot about from the glass node
article that okay there are 23 point 1 million entities out there that own
Bitcoin okay but like the top seven or eight I forgot what it was or exchanges
or custodial and they owe like 2 million Bitcoin I mean it’s unbelievable
the amount of people who think they own their Bitcoin but let these exchanges
hold their Bitcoin and that that was a shocking for some and it’s just a
reminder of what you’re saying we got to learn to control your own private key
everyone’s got to get on that bandwagon Alex what’s your take mm-hmm yeah so you
know we deal with somebody the beginning of the funnel someone who’s just getting
into Bitcoin and you know zooming in a little bit on like more of the micro
trends you know we function very similarly to like to exchange we have
custodial wallets but we also see that you know what percentage of our users
are moving off to their own to their own addresses and so when that hits the more
that hits the more that the exchanges you know move their money to the wallets
assuming it’s not you know being a manipulated which is probably a false
assumption you know I think that’s like we see that 90 over 99% of our users do
not move their money out of our wallet and and so if that’s any we’re close to
the number that of coinbase or anything I think this number is actually very
small of the people who believe that they’re in Bitcoin or have Bitcoin which
I I think is a real Bitcoin user because that’s somebody who will get smart they
will start to you know realize in the future they will
stand private keys in the future and it’s just a matter of time about
teaching them about self sovereign banking identity and the self sovereign
individual so I think it’s I kind of think that it’s such a small number but
it is a good number two as an indicator of like retail adoption but also like if
we you know go back to manipulation I mean who’s to say that you know in
exchange can’t just like you know spend up a bunch of addresses because they
change something in their you know business operations like you know coin
basis has you know probably a million multi-million addresses that they’ve
spun up over the years if they change one thing and they’re in their business
ops has you know we could as well like I could see like you know somebody
manipulating the market like dramatically with that number so I
actually I remain skeptical of if that number is actually that real okay it’s
good it’s good to be skeptical these got me
yeah we’re trusting that these guys methodology is really measuring
everything accurately so I thought it was a it’s interesting new way I liked
it I like to hear about new methodologies of looking at things and I
uh people always ask how many people really own a Bitcoin out there how many
entities own Bitcoin alright let’s talk about smaller transactions here that you
I mean you you know about small amounts of Bitcoin going back and forth when
people use lollies they get big coming back home on purchases let’s talk about
though the Lightning Network and what everybody was talking about yesterday
Jack Mallory and his uh strike that allows people to directly pay their
lightning bills from their bank account what was your take on this Alice we were
talking a little bit about this before the show it’s awesome it’s it’s one of
the it means it’s extremely bold I I mean look I think he’s one of the best
builders in the space I think he like thinks about he’s he’s like pushing the
boundaries on like UI UX design he makes things you know Jack makes things
incredibly easy to you know I’ve been impressed with Olympus I’ve been
impressed with like everything that he’s Bill
my worry is that like just reading you know the literature that’s out there
that he’s published I personally like worried that he’s not you know crossing
the T’s and dotting the eyes and I want you know I’m all for everybody like you
know pushing the boundaries you know making things that are cool and bold but
I worry about people protecting themselves because you can’t keep
building if you are in jail the what the current process looks like is it looks
like directly illegal now that I you know everybody plays in different
boundaries and I’m all for people again pushing adoption through all means but I
I do worry it doesn’t look legal to me at first glance and you know we deal
with a lot of legality with our business and making sure that it is legal at all
points for not just us but for the consumer as well and so that’s not the
next piece that I would like answered is what what lawyer has like cleared this
for these users because I think is something as like a a builder it’s not
just about me like I I could you know I could be like looking out for myself I
could be like you know doing all the things right for me but if I’m building
something that’s putting my users at risk then I just need to be very clear
at what that risk is and I didn’t see any piece of that in the medium post so
I don’t wanna call them out I mean I don’t not like you know I just think
it’s like that should be the next piece to address because essentially what he’s
doing is he’s he’s creating a money transmitter but without the legality so
I don’t want him getting in trouble I don’t want the user getting in trouble
and before they launch I think that would be something very important to
cover or open source it and you know just like don’t don’t launch it yourself
like you know I don’t want him getting in trouble he’s one of the best voters
in the space I very much respect everything he’s doing and but it’s it’s
dangerous territory before we go that does I’m gonna hear Dustin’s take on
this but with your with lolly is it a pain in the butt with all these small
little transactions is it a pain to report all
this to the IRS and everything break right now like every little transaction
that you do you have to report to the IRS right so so we actually operate in a
very interesting category because rebates are not taxable income so that’s
you know I’m not a I’m not an accountant but that’s one of the the interesting
pieces of our business that a lot of people don’t realize that’s that that’s
the stance that Ebates takes as a stance said all these rewards companies take
and that you know I even thought my last company and that was one of the insights
that I brought to to the Bitcoin space so it’s it’s really like you know people
are welcome to you know report that with their earnings some some accountants I’m
sure would encourage people to technically it’s like you know arch our
stance is if you have if you Bates isn’t reporting their rebates as income then
do you really have to report your Bitcoin as income now when you transfer
it or when you when you actually exchange it back to the US dollar that’s
a look that’s a little bit different it’s really you know you are making a
transaction you’re essentially selling it but all the Bitcoin that you’ve
earned is is a rebate in our flow of funds okay excellent this
is a good insight I’m learning new stuff here everybody check out lolly all right
Dustin your take on this Lightning Network development by Jack Mallory
strike yeah deed you go oh wait Dustin you there oh your connection went a
little whacked on us oh I hope in with another piece if he’s I’m happy to talk
about this go for it go for it yeah David so I agree with Alex and as it
relates to the first kind of thread that we were talking about is relates to kind
of bridging this gap between you know the legacy to the new you know Alex is
right when you’re talking about transmission of funds transmission of
assets you have to ensure especially in this day and age that you do get those
proper money transmitter licenses and there’s anyone out there probably knows
you know you can do that here the United States state-by-state and
then you can also go that and do that federally both of those are time
consumptive they are economically consumptive sometimes there are certain
states that can take a few months there are certain states that can take a year
and a half I think California is a fairly arduous one to get through in
terms of money transmission and so that is really important but I want to
emphasize the fact that from a first glance what strike is trying to do is
interesting because at the end of the day especially as relates to retailers
there are issues you know retailers you know the the adage was that retailer
would not necessarily want to be paid in a Bitcoin because of the volatility and
because they don’t know if they want to hold it for a creation value or if they
need to just get rid of it and sell it off and so then there’s also the issue
in regards to that’s regards to volatility but then as relates to the
actual Bitcoin holder using a Bitcoin for the tax purposes you know that is
something that is quite cumbersome every time that a person uses Bitcoin to
potentially purchase something that is a taxable event here in the United States
and so trying to deal with those issues I applaud but at the same time I agree
with Alex you have to ensure that you are working with the proper resources to
ensure that it is something that is you know regulated in something that is
properly set up so your users are not obviously at the end of the knife but
again as it relates to this bridging of the legacy to the to the new as relates
also to exchange as I saw that you know I heard that you guys were talking about
kind of centralized exchanges as it relates to the first thread as I
mentioned it is worth noting that for you know the purposes of trying to bring
outside people into the into the Bitcoin sandbox we need to be cognizant again I
said this before on the show that if you’re talking to institutional
investors and you’re talking to family offices and others that we all have said
that we want in this space they need certain things they need to have custody
they need to have protections they need to have a lot of the fiduciary
responsibilities that many retail investors don’t necessarily think about
so yes you know do I believe in not you or you know not your key is not your
Bitcoin in theory yes and I am I am a proponent of that but I am also
understanding that to bridge this gap to bring people outside of digital assets
in Bitcoin to bring them from the outside in we need to have these bridges
there first and that’s why I’m really a proponent of what alex is doing at lolly
to having the ability to do what you normally do on a daily basis and
consuming and buying things online and being able to earn Bitcoin in that
fashion is something that I think is potentially massively important to
furthering adoption outside the box again we’ve been up linking a lot of us
in the space in the ecosystem for the last few years have been focused about
building things for inside the box and we need to continue to think about
outside the box and how we can get people that billions of people that are
not currently in Bitcoin in Wow very very good point they’re bringing the
newbies yeah it did it’s it can’t be too technologically sophisticated there’s
got to be easy on ramps for them definitely dustin you’ve got your
connection is back now thank god what do you guys say
no no no went off of course one more yeah yes Alex alatau Alex’s connection
went a little whack there that’s that’s a very interesting hang on alex is
having connectivity issues said it so as Dustin oh my god what is going on oh
yeah we’ve got the two of us hang on a sec there’s Alex yeah you’re back oh
yeah so I won one more piece about the strike stuff I think like you David
thing thank you for the kind words and then also I think we’re on the same page
about a lot of things and I think that they’re like if we were
to just let’s just like take this assumption that just for the sake of you
know moving the conversation forward and I don’t want to be a stickler for the
rules I’m you know I I want people to push you know innovation forward and so
let’s just talk about my background okay let’s just talk
like strike assuming it’s legal and assuming like would you say like
exchange where to be using this technology in in it you know open-source
capacity and had a money transmitter license like the user experience of this
is very interesting it’s who would benefit from this flow of
funds that is a novel flow of funds is essentially what Jack has created so
what I think most interesting is that is like who benefits from this the nice
part is that a consumer could hypothetically easily put in their debit
card they send funds to somebody who wants to receive their funds in Bitcoin
and the advantages of that is that the you know the fund is immutable and so
we’re like the incentives that would be in place if someone were to take maybe
like give somebody a discount because they paid in Bitcoin would be very
interesting because they know that there wouldn’t be charge backs so if I were
him I think that there could be ways in which I would message it better or
differently I think about like you know with a strategy to go to merchants and
to convince them hey this could be a way for you to accept Bitcoin and it would
be immutable you work around the debit card companies work around the credit
card companies the banks that would be a strategy I would I would deploy I think
that there’s still very few merchants that actually want to accept Bitcoin I
know personally just talking to our you know thousand merchants I think it’s
very difficult for them to understand or think even think about changing their
balance sheet changing their tax you know their accounting practices to
accept Bitcoin even if they were to you know use something like this I think it
would be very difficult so you’d have to change the flow of funds for someone to
actually pay with debit card maybe if they want for privacy and like you know
do something of like through Bitcoin through like a you know a an address
that’s spun up and then back to cash but at that point like is it cheaper to
transact then then like the alternative and what are the actual benefits to the
user like maybe the fact that like you can’t maybe the fact that it’s immutable
is enough but you can reduce chargebacks but at the
same time that’s like a there’s a lot going on there and it’s I think it’s
it’s it’s not quite there yet that’s going to bring the masses into it or
make make something make it more approachable for even the current users
to use Bitcoin or want to use Bitcoin all right Dustin now I’m sure his
connection is great tonight ya know I hope the it’s it’s very strange the
minute you say something it goes away it’s uh you might want to get rid of
your your picture there’s a way to like eliminate video like no no video that
that might do it just so your audio I think that that might uh solve the
problem all right go all right yeah Dustin can you hear me now yeah he’s
there Dustin speak please I do new person on the panel everybody wants to
hear what the new guy has to say oh man all right okay Dustin
hear us okay you’re unmuted now so to speak it’s not working can you hear me
no yeah yeah that’s good that’s good okay in regards to what David was was
speaking on his horse for institutional investors I completely agree as well
that that’s going to be a huge part of of Bitcoin and not to act as though
we’re gonna have family offices and and institutions as he said they’re not
going to be saying they’re holding their own private keys I’m just more concerned
with the central points of failure for individual users in exchanges as far as
for with with Jack and it was a great point that Alex brought up about you
know issues with with legality I remember I had to do a thing with Finn
sent back in like 2013 when I was trying to rent out I was worried about being a
money transmitter I was renting out my GPUs for mining on like little short
term contracts on eBay and that is something I can really get you in a
really bad pickle if you’re you’re not very careful with it but I
think things like this are very interesting it’s great that you can do
that but you know you always want to be very careful in in terms of not getting
the department of making you sad on the bad side of you yeah yeah definitely and
yeah I’m sorry you had to have an experience dealing with these uh
bureaucracies and whatnot and uh before I move on to some actually some
bureaucratic type of topics David do you have anything else to add to because I
thought you were gonna say something else no I I think I agree with Alex you
know we all are trying to walk this plank of trying to ensure that we do not
stymie innovation yet ensure that we are doing things that do not put us all in
jail I know that sounds kind of funny but I think we need to you know there is
this balance and I think we here in the United States we’ve had the benefit of
working with regulators that have been very open to this and have worked with
companies to learn how you know Bitcoin and you know the underpinnings of that
are operating and so I think at the same time you know I agree without we don’t
want to sign the innovation we want to continue to have founders that are going
to break those boundaries you know for instance uber you know was they had a
you know kind of a entre of you know breaking things and going fast and you
know that came to kind of bite them in in the behind a little bit you know they
obviously they went public and they’ve generated billions of dollars you know
in the mean time but I think for us you know to have sustainable growth and
ensuring that our founders are doing things and that correct mash in the
correct fashion really helps for overall kind of kind of optics with other people
we want to make sure that we we don’t have you know founders like quadriga and
anything like that hitting the news waves because every time that that
happens is a further kind of black eye and it’s it kind of further slows down
adoption of the overall asset and a Bitcoin all right now speaking
about clarification of so we all end up in jail all these inter and I love the
innovation I wish there weren’t all these rules out here and people didn’t
have to worry about getting thrown in prison and everything I think it’s
ridiculous how strict the government can be but if if you are I create or if
you’re starting a company in this space you got to deal with them and so we’ve
got a guy running for president there’s a presidential election coming up in
America and maybe some people have heard about it and there’s a there’s some an
Iowa caucus coming up I guess it’s next Thursday I don’t know what it is it’s
very soon and so there was an article there are a lot of crypto people that
like Andrew yang let’s start out with that okay and he’s said for a while he
wants to clarify everything and we all want clarification we all definitely
want clarification and everything is also relative in politics how many of
the people running for president actually can use a computer even that’s
a great question so when you hear Andrew yang talking about cryptocurrency
talking about Bitcoin people have gotten excited so let’s start with Dustin
what’s your take on Andrew yang well I’ve been pretty critical of him for a
long time mostly just because I think that his policies are quite a bit
ridiculous and I thought it was quite smart for him to use the the math pen as
kind of a meme that he’s surrounded himself with because it kind of
insulates people from actually looking too much at the actual math of what he’s
proposing but in terms of crypto he is constantly come 8:1 he doesn’t hold the
Bitcoin ethos he doesn’t believe in like the you know the principles that
underpin what bitcoin is or at least with what I believe the principles of
Bitcoin is and he doesn’t really ever mention it too much you just used as
kind of that ethereal crypto term or blockchain and the way that he’s talked
it seems to me more that he is he either understands it and and actually really
understands you know Bitcoin and everything or he doesn’t really under
standed at all but if he does he’s being purposely really you know opaque about
this and just uses this very nebulous term of blockchain he talks about like
blockchain voting which doesn’t make any sense because you know you’re then
you’re gonna have like one centralized blockchain is supposed to be more secure
than five or six centralized voting electronic voting machine companies and
I do like the one aspect as his idea of as he said clarification there are the
there are a lot of things there’s a bill right now for making small Bitcoin
transactions or just any crypto tax exempt which i think is it’s very useful
it’s it’s very difficult to account for your on your taxes you know having to go
through every single little transaction that you’ve done on some software wallet
or with your own node or whatever that you’re using to actually do that because
everything is a taxable event anytime that that moves from your wallet to
somebody else’s wallet or or on an exchange to your wallet or everything is
a taxable event and it’s a nightmare that I’ve been going through I was one
of those if you remember last year they said they had the the letters getting
sent out one was the first order was hey we think you might have done something
with Bitcoin you know check and make sure that you are in violation the
second was we’re pretty sure you did in the third was we’re really sure you
should refil as soon as possible mine went to straight the CP 2200 which
is basically an audit and I’ve been dealing with them for since June or July
and it stems from I made the mistake it was my fault but I
just used regular tax software because I don’t have very prior to this complex a
taxable income so I just filed it under capital gains and I did not file the
form 8949 which establishes a cost basis basically what you bought and sold it
for so they took the total volume as my income which would make it a very
substantial unreported income and I’ve been going back and forth to them it’s
very difficult but any vacation because SEC CFTC are all
clamoring over who is actually going to have kind of the oversight over all of
this space so federal a federal clarification is great but I do like
state-by-state differences because I think small states that are more
forward-thinking should be rewarded wait I got it I gotta ask you a question here
so you got a bad letter you got a bad number I’m glad you’re sharing this
story because I guy with a bad letter on yet or anyone that said to get a bad
letter so basically you all it was with selling your Bitcoin right for Fiat and
you didn’t report it correctly that that’s the bottom line because the way
and I don’t blame because the way that it looks at the IRS let’s just say about
one Bitcoin at ten thousand I sold it at ten thousand I bought it again at ten
thousand and then sent it to my wallet at home
or two it to the wall that I controlled my note to the IRS it looks like thirty
thousand dollars an unreported income because they’re just counting the entire
bond because I don’t have a cost basis for it and so everything that I
basically did because the 1099 K basically counts anything they sent in
and out as merchant income and the way that they kind of like it would be if
you had a stripe and it’s I don’t blame me for it I was the one who screwed up
but now it’s a real nightmare so if anybody’s listening that isn’t sure
about how all that worked you really need to go back I would recommend it
because you don’t have the the big hand of penalties in it because they’ll tow
into the interest is like it’s it’s staggered but it’s you know five to six
percent so if you have from twenty thirteen something that you didn’t
report correctly and they come back I mean you could be looking at the
compounded interest is six percent five six percent a year or whatever it is for
seven years and that’s not going to be fun whereas if you go and fix it
yourself they’re they’re a lot more forgiving in that aspect so it was my
fault I didn’t understand it well enough and I am learning very very quickly how
to actually do this correctly and doing it correctly with an actual CPA in text
or any that knows what they’re doing I really thank you for sharing this real
life story because I I you sold your piggy you had to sell
some Bitcoin matter that’s whatever you had to do I tell people you know to
avoid all that just don’t sell your Bitcoin just don’t but something I mean
again you had to do personal business well I fancied myself a trader in 2017
which I quickly figured out that like many people did I was more just riding a
wave than actually having any real insight I’m glad you can admit that
there because it also many might shows I say you know don’t be a trader people
and people why why listen to what that dude just said everybody okay listen
listen to what Dustin just said if you think you’re your real traitor all right
so let’s let’s go to Alex here we covered a lot there started with Andrew
yang we also talked about what he wants clarification
one of the things that I think everybody wants clarification is is is the
government gonna allow people just to have small transactions and not worry
about the all these tax reporting what’s what’s your take on everything that was
just said there Alex a lot I mean I think you know hopefully that they they
come around and they realize that that this is good we’re being taxed on every
single transaction because we have all these unnecessary intermediaries and
that’s globally like there’s you know we cannot move money freely and it’s money
you know should move as quickly and freely as information and there’s you
know if you look at I come from the payments world and if you look at like a
flow of funds for any sort of transaction it is insane how many
unnecessary parties touch it and it’s because it’s where it we’re we’re based
on the rails that we we had 30 40 years ago and and so like part of what I love
about Bitcoin is that it removes all of those people and it just lets you truly
do p2p or you know P to a you know person to a business anywhere in the
world and that’s part of the beauty of it at some point whether it’s through a
regulated stable coin or whether it’s through cryptocurrency or currency that
is you know federally mandated hopefully they will see that I think that it’s
going to be it’s going to be a difficult thing to get through we have so many
bank lobbyists we have so many politicians that are being bought by the
banks by the credit card companies by these sent these like highly centralized
institutions that I think it’s going to take a long time to remove that I
personally I mean I’ve talked a lot about this over the last year and I
think we’re starting to see hints of it you know in it I’m super long staple
coin stable coins I don’t I haven’t seen one that is gonna that is going to be
pervasive but I mean Bitcoin is the endgame and is what we all strive to and
I think all roads lead to Bitcoin in the long term but in order to get there I
think you need a stable coin that is somewhat regulated that we can use to
transact freely to reduce the fees to remove the institutions and I think that
that’s going to be net good and it’s going to lead us into this Bitcoin
future oh well stay behind see stable coins getting brought up today David
what he just brought up stable course we’re talking taxes we’re talking to
Andrew yang what’s what’s your say on this so it’s interesting that you guys
bring that up I’m gonna be releasing a podcast on my show baselayer next week
with Jeremy a layer from circle when we were talking about stable coins a lot
but more importantly as relates to the politics here in the United States as
relates to Yang’s comments about digital assets
I think it’s encouraging while you know I get out of the political realm because
I find that our two-party system is toxic I do feel that you know someone
who at least acknowledges that there is a future here versus the current
administration which have tweeted out that bitcoins associated with terrorism
and all sorts of nefarious Affairs and we have other people within the
administration that have been fairly negative on it I think it’s positive
that we actually have someone who is running that is talking you know in in
the in the positive note of Bitcoin and digital assets and so I think what’s
also interesting from my conversation with Jeremy which was alluded to is that
while the the policymakers the congressmen and women
the united states are learning about this it was an occupation from germany
that four stations with staffers the staffers becoming credibly up to speed
on this very fast and i think that’s encouraging because it helps dictate
better policy going forward so while you know you know the debate is up in the
air and we’re gonna have a very interesting next few months you mean the
united states as relates to the election i think it’s encouraging you know for
any of the people that are running for office right now that if they are
obviously spending time learning about it and are you know pro math for
instance or acknowledging that math and science matter versus some of the
current EO tides that we’ve had to deal with i think that is a positive going
forward all right yeah i would say uh we try to stay off politics here to it is
incredibly toxic in the US but a positive here is that at least andrew
yang is uh is bringing it up he’s bringing up crypto and bitcoin who knows
how much it really understands it but it’s better than a lot of it it’s better
than i can envision so many of the candidates just go over the terrorist
route with it and just associate i mean there’s so I mean you see in the Senate
right now that that guy from California he associates it with the worst of the
worst okay enough politics I wanna uh I do
want to ask Dustin something that was brought up real quick we talked stable
coins there to do anything too stable to say about stable coins or anything
well Oh God any but you out there ie might Lord someone doesn’t want Dustin
speak all right well let’s let us move to a question that actually first of all
in the chat everybody’s linked you below everybody check out everybody’s Twitter
you could check out the it’s podcast there you can check out everybody’s
company that they’re talking about everything if you just go to their
Twitter accounts they all link to everything that they talk about all
right Dustin you’re back baby yeah I apologize everybody for I don’t
know what’s going on with my connection but anyways as far as for stable coins I
think I agree with Alex in that I haven’t really seen anything yet that I
have a lot of confidence in as far as for for staying power but
do think that they are interesting they’re kind of used Gary Johnson
nautical politics again but Gary Johnson’s a baby to baby steps take on
something like that is that you know people have a really hard way this money
itself as an abstraction is very difficult for people or was difficult
for Humanity to to understand I mean it took a very long time to move from
straight hunter-gatherer to barter to the subtraction of money and I think
stable coins are an interesting way as a possible baby step to Bitcoin in a way
for people to get used to this concept of digital assets and digital money
whereas an it you know could be that a stable coin built on Bitcoin could be
the the killer app going for the first generation of Bitcoin as it is a going
to be a multi-generational project for you know for in perpetuity as long as
Bitcoin exists and it could be that thing that helps people to kind of ease
into that bathtub and get used to the the temperature of the water as we move
forward versus the kind of the more in-your-face of you know private hold
your own keys run your own ode all that kind of stuff is is a much more kind of
smack in the face versus something like a stable coin that would be built on top
of Bitcoin ease into the bathtub of stable coins that could be a slogan
pound that like but that’s my slogan now we’re gonna go that this is show is live
by the way so we got questions from the audience here real quick and statements
first of all Tony travelers sent 20 bucks
he said strong hand thank you man thanks a lot I think it was Michael said he’d
see me at the uncopyable in Las Vegas on the 22nd of February well that’s coming
back up soon in three weeks we’ll all be in Las Vegas there’ll be a lot of big
people there check that out and we got a question for Alex here when will Lally
be in Canada Alex you get the and now Alex is
connects oh my god that connection day then shocked at working Alex a promise I
didn’t dip out on purpose on that cookie okay and getting a win Canada
yeah win Canada ahead and Twitter so yeah I mean we’re working on it we have
I would say we have a lot of progress on the merchant partnership side and right
now we’re looking at at localizing and globalizing the the site so right now
you know we built for the US to prove out the the market I think very few
companies go international day one and and so it’s it’s very difficult to scale
internationally because while we are you know working on top of Bitcoin we do
also have to deal with Fiat rails in some cases and also regulations and as
you know we brought up earlier with strike you know we are thinking a lot
about our users and making sure that you know we are giving them the best way to
earn legally and and so I think that is a very important piece for us so we’re
bringing a lot of partners to Canada we’ve proven it out in the u.s. we’re
definitely coming there this year and I would say probably best skating yes is
two to three months maybe maybe four to five we because we really want to do it
right all right there you go Canadians there are a lot
of Canadians at the that watch this show so you’ve given them hope that’s that’s
good before we go I wanna I want to talk about family offices and ARCA and David
to give us an update on what’s going on over there but before that in the
description I did say we would bring up the the be cash drama that that has been
going on I don’t know if anyone wants to specifically say about that they
proposed a 12.5% tax and then this week the guy behind the the the Bitcoin comm
poll whatever that pool is that you know who controls says they weren’t they
weren’t down with that real quick Dustin did you are you following this story at
all be cash do you care uh yeah
I mean just kind of tangentially a little bit I’ve been watching a little
bit about there and it looks like I mean that the the the minor tax whole thing
is seems to be completely off the rails I believe it looks like because I
believe Bitcoin comm has pulled their support for it and without that I don’t
really see it going forward I mean it outside of Bitcoin I would say it’s it’s
an interesting idea about some sort of I always kind of thought that the way the
– fund worked was kind of interesting as far as for promoting marketing and
that’s one thing back to David’s point about institutional investors and I
think that that is if you kind of look at in a historical context one of the
ways that the US was able to really kind of gain a lot of their powers if you
look back at the Whig Party they did basically government contracts with the
very wealthy people by building canals and roads and the specific aim of that
by the people in the Whig party Abraham Lincoln was one of them as well before
it so was to bind the rich to the basically to the state and they would be
reliant either in large part or in some part of their wealth and power and
influence to be able to well not have to have the government providing them with
the money to be able to build these things plus they would have the obvious
issues of corruption to hold over their heads so I think that if you Bitcoin is
able to bind both stratus of extreme Stratus of society both rich and poor to
them by offering them a really lucrative incentive to do so
is is a really good way forward of not being as vulnerable to you know
regulations even things such as being made illegal which I don’t really think
is ever going to happen now they had a chance but I think that day is gone but
doesn’t mean it couldn’t still have but if you bind aspects of society that
have either political or just have political and and and money influence
you’re able to do that so in that way you also have to be able to sell your
message real well so the idea of having some sort of fund
to pay for those sorts of things that – that although it doesn’t seem to be
working so I could be really very well be wrong in that aspect yeah so Sir
David Hal do these crypto assets in the future go about funding their
development you I mean you you do your company does deal with other way beyond
Bitcoin type of stuff so I’m sure you’ve thought about this you’ve seen different
funding mechanisms for these crypto assets as it were I mean at the end of
the day we see a taxonomy breaking out within digital assets there’s Bitcoin
which is the the store value the programmable money out there which we
obviously you know I think it’s incredibly important within it within
building portfolio for institutional investors aside from that then when you
break apart to proof of stake and thence taking models and how that all works out
you know we are definitely seeing you know all of the traction that’s
happening there or lack of traction as well – it’s not just you know positive
it’s also negative and we’re starting to see projects you know go to the wayside
but I think in terms of the overall momentum in regards institutional
investors and family offices what we find quite interesting State Street
which is a big custodian here in the United States did a survey towards the
end of last year or where they showed that 94% of 101 institutional investors
have some sort of proclivity some sort of interest or want to get involved with
Bitcoin and other digital assets in 2020 and I think that’s a really good kind of
marker for potential growth going forward fidelity did a survey last year
with 401 which we talked about last time we’re on and so we are seeing a momentum
shift there was a bit of a lull in q4 in regards to kind of the overall
sentiment from institutional investors regarding Bitcoin
and some of the other digital assets but that has changed over the course of the
last four to five weeks I’d say dramatically and again I think it is
this kind of concept and this idea that Bitcoin can be a hedge against global
macro calamity and we are starting to see evidence to prove that and show
people that that it actually is working in that sea of her and so the more data
that we’re able to collect the more analysis that we’re able to do provides
investors of that type of ilk a little bit more confidence coming into the
asset class itself and I also you know whenever I talk to a family office in an
institutional investor the fact that Bitcoin has been around for ten years
has not died even though people have said that it’s going to be dying 300
plus times it has not died and it is not gone anywhere and in fact as we talked
about the beginning of this of the show we’re actually seeing you know upward
sloping adoption rates and so I think all that factors into some positive
momentum going to 2020 and you know as we have more Black Swan events like
we’re dealing with right now with the coronavirus I think more investors are
starting to realize that they need something that is 24/7 365 that allows
them to mitigate those risks mm-hmm so that’s very your take is very
interesting positive sentence sentiment toward a Bitcoin the last few weeks
because of the negative things going on in the world this is uh I try not to
people are going to seep it going the way they’re going to see it you know as
a way to protect against these negative things I I try not to look at the
negatives but hey you’re you’re telling us how the people have the people with
the money or thinking so this is a very interesting I want those family offices
to pile into that Bitcoin baby for whatever reason that they may want to do
it go ahead make my day alright so Alex I don’t know if you have
anything to say about the be cash thing we’re talking about before but uh give
us if you do say it but tell us what’s going on at Lalli also any developments
yeah we’re working on the mobile app that’s our big focus right now so the
mobile app is going to let people earn on more things on more daily purchases
so we’ve been working really hard on that International has been a big piece
of this 2020 so giving Bitcoin to more
people in more places expanding to Canada and creating really like a
template for expanding to new countries so I think that like we’ve we proven up
the model in the u.s. we now want to take this model to different places and
you know bitcoin is inherently global so we want to be we want to be global so
building out the mobile strategy and then expanding out to Canada is a big
piece we have some really big partnerships that we landed as far as
like merchants go a lot of merchants sort of like close off all meetings and
partnerships during the holidays so now we’re like ramping up the business
development side again and we have some really big partnerships that we’re going
to announce over the next few weeks and months but yeah things are things we’re
moving forward we’re feeling really good about Bitcoin yeah keeping that uh
strong hands and keep moving forward all right now that like button with the
strong hand people alright so Dustin you got the did you know podcast and I
really I I explored your archives I saw that interview you did with Ben hunt
which was very good he he wants to like Bitcoin but he doesn’t exactly like
Bitcoin and he’s worried about Libre it was a great interview you check out the
Dustin’s did you know podcast but tell us about your podcast and that anything
what’s going on with you oh yeah thanks so that was an interesting interview I
think Ben is very he’s really sympathetic to it but his take was that
we’re just trying to play in the same sandbox as as central banks and that’s
where he thinks that we are failing I didn’t agree but you know he’s more than
free to do that and I had a lot of interesting interviews people like
Caitlin long and a Phil Zimmerman was also even though he’s also very critical
of Bitcoin but the creator of PGP and we talked about Hal Finney for quite a bit
so that was a really fun interview mainly it’s did you know crypto calm but
I created that back like in the days when I was a little much bless Bitcoin
centric but I just didn’t change the the dress yet so that the podcast really
focuses on as of late any kind of things that have to do with Bitcoin especially
kind of the more esoteric fringe concepts and and philosophy behind it
and kind of this emerging concepts of the the I guess you want to call it the
Bitcoin cult in these very kind of religious ideas that have been forming
up around it and we talk a lot about that with the various guess I just had
friar Hass on not too long ago I had a G G max Hildebrand and we talked a lot
about I just kind of enjoy these fringe concepts so within Bitcoin and
everybody’s welcome to go it’s on every single major podcast platform it did you
know crypto commie can find all of those or just look up digital podcasts there
dude you were just dropping some things GG was on this show last week and the
week before we had hats on all good to end uh max has got to return to the show
one of one of these days but yeah you’ve got a good thing going on there I like
that you let people from outside the space on that have like Ben hunt I think
he was a very interesting one I know I’m going back for that one again and I
talked about it on another video actually so people check that out check
him out we’ll let David nage have the final word here anything you want to say
about ARCA just conclusionary thoughts anything current events yeah I think we
are moving into really interesting times right now especially here in the United
States as we alluded to there are those that over the course the last few weeks
not as it relates to Bitcoin and digital assets but there seems to be a movement
now towards investors that are looking at climate for instance and as someone
who is used to look at that you know over the last 10 years it was banging my
head against the wall trying to get people to take a look at the tech that
was being developed and now all of a sudden it seems that you know big
investors like us me and Sequoia and other venture capitalists are coming to
the to the table in a very big way Chris Sacca just started another a VC fund
focused on this and I think it’s quite interesting that we also see that Cup
with things that are happening with companies like Tesla and that has
obviously moved quite significantly over the last few weeks and so there seems to
be a movement and I don’t think it’s I’m talking more in general terms of
technology that people are understanding that there have been huge technological
innovations that have occurred over the last you know five to ten years that are
quite important that are now maturing and now have the ability to be invested
and so I think this is a very good thing for Bitcoin and other digital assets
going forward is that there seems to be acknowledgement and there seems to be
capital flowing to Millennials and to younger generations that want to make
these investments and I think that’s really important going forward so it’s a
really interesting time to be on the frontlines of Bitcoin and the overall
space you know the overall adoption and we saw the the the education are
continuing and I think you know companies like Lally that allow people
to actually earn Bitcoin for their usual behaviors and some of the other projects
that are coming to market that are moving from you know test net to main
net that are offering you know things like a cold cold card that offers more
security for your digital assets and Bitcoin things all are happening right
now that are very exciting and I think we’re in some very interesting times
going forward we had to deal with you know crypto winter for the last year
year and a half and I think you know it’s my hope that we are starting to
move from that and move to better narratives about maturation of this
overall innovation and this revolution yeah I I think that’s a positive way to
end things Golden Age we’re entering ah you know we might have some negative
things negative worries that the whole the trend is positive this world is
becoming more technologically advanced people want to get on future trends like
Tesla as you brought up in a tweet that I actually mentioned your tweet on
yesterday’s show check that out everybody and big the currency this is
this is the future Golden Age 2020s we are in the 2020s we’re about to enter
the second month of the 2020s this weekend so thank you very much guest you
all rocked it you did a great job thank you so much remember we do this show
every Friday so I’m Adam the bitcoinmeister the disrupt meister
you get a new show here everyday it’s not this weekend Bitcoin Saturday will
be back for beyond Bitcoin so remember check out the links below check all
their Twitter’s out shabbat shalom everybody on the bitcoinmeister town
that like button sia tomorrow next week whenever have a
fun time watching a football game if you happen to be doing that this weekend but
keep on learning here and check out all the archives follow me on twitter tech
ball to e CH be alt thanks a lot guys see ya bye bye let us hang on I forgot
to click on stop livestream bye bye everyone

5 thoughts on “This week in Bitcoin- 1-31-2020- Realized Cap ATH, Lightning Network Strike, Taxes, Andrew Yang

  1. Fantastic show. Plenty of interesting stories and information. Thanks Dustin, David, Alex and Adam. Like button pounded!

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